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	<title>Comments on: When Should You Release Before You Test?</title>
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	<link>http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196</link>
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		<title>By: Mark Levison</title>
		<link>http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196/comment-page-1#comment-120680</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Levison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196#comment-120680</guid>
		<description>It is possible to develop good software, with great quality that meets a customers needs using waterfall - but it seems akin to throwing darts randomly at dart board (the way I play incidentally). In the end it sends the wrong message to your customer - claim to be in the agile software business but don&#039;t use Agile. Odd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is possible to develop good software, with great quality that meets a customers needs using waterfall &#8211; but it seems akin to throwing darts randomly at dart board (the way I play incidentally). In the end it sends the wrong message to your customer &#8211; claim to be in the agile software business but don&#8217;t use Agile. Odd.</p>
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		<title>By: siddharta</title>
		<link>http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196/comment-page-1#comment-120571</link>
		<dc:creator>siddharta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196#comment-120571</guid>
		<description>&quot;I still stand behind the statement I wouldn&#039;t show a client a released tool where the vendor couldn’t answer the above questions.&quot;

Why is that? What if you came across the perfect agile tool.. but it was developed with waterfall? I don&#039;t see how that makes it less valuable for the customer.

I&#039;m pretty sure all the agile tool vendors could give good answers to the questions. But at the end of the day, no one want to be agile for the sake of being agile. What really counts is whether you are adding business value for your customer.

A more interesting question to ask is &#039;In what way does xyz tool allow my customer to be more agile?&#039; :)

To answer your questions,

Our main product, Silver Catalyst, started with Scrum but we use Kanban for this project now. Why? As the project context changes, the process needs to change accordingly.

# Your Definition of Done

Coded, unit tested (for the backend), integration tested (for the UI), manually tested

# Whether you use TDD? Or at least Unit Testing?

Backend code is TDD. Some UI code is unit tested in Jsunit. Interaction code is functional tested in Selenium.

# What do you do for Acceptance Testing?

Code has to pass the automated functional tests plus a manual test

# How often do you release?

Once a week. We make lots of small releases. But that doesnt mean that a story takes a week. Since we use Kanban, development is decoupled from the release cadence.

# What did you learn in your last retrospective? 

Action point to improve the error reporting capability of the selenium tests so that we get notification failures even while the tests are still running.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I still stand behind the statement I wouldn&#8217;t show a client a released tool where the vendor couldn’t answer the above questions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why is that? What if you came across the perfect agile tool.. but it was developed with waterfall? I don&#8217;t see how that makes it less valuable for the customer.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure all the agile tool vendors could give good answers to the questions. But at the end of the day, no one want to be agile for the sake of being agile. What really counts is whether you are adding business value for your customer.</p>
<p>A more interesting question to ask is &#8216;In what way does xyz tool allow my customer to be more agile?&#8217; <img src='http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>To answer your questions,</p>
<p>Our main product, Silver Catalyst, started with Scrum but we use Kanban for this project now. Why? As the project context changes, the process needs to change accordingly.</p>
<p># Your Definition of Done</p>
<p>Coded, unit tested (for the backend), integration tested (for the UI), manually tested</p>
<p># Whether you use TDD? Or at least Unit Testing?</p>
<p>Backend code is TDD. Some UI code is unit tested in Jsunit. Interaction code is functional tested in Selenium.</p>
<p># What do you do for Acceptance Testing?</p>
<p>Code has to pass the automated functional tests plus a manual test</p>
<p># How often do you release?</p>
<p>Once a week. We make lots of small releases. But that doesnt mean that a story takes a week. Since we use Kanban, development is decoupled from the release cadence.</p>
<p># What did you learn in your last retrospective? </p>
<p>Action point to improve the error reporting capability of the selenium tests so that we get notification failures even while the tests are still running.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Levison</title>
		<link>http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196/comment-page-1#comment-120504</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Levison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196#comment-120504</guid>
		<description>Which begs the question - how would Silver Catalyst answer my questions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which begs the question &#8211; how would Silver Catalyst answer my questions?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Levison</title>
		<link>http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196/comment-page-1#comment-120503</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Levison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.silverstripesoftware.com/blog/archives/196#comment-120503</guid>
		<description>I mis-understood the author&#039;s intent. He&#039;s not releasing a tool, so much as testing the waters to see if there is any interest - that wasn&#039;t clear from what he said on Scrum Deve. For these purposes I think he did the right thing. I still stand behind the statement I would show a client a released tool where the vendor couldn&#039;t answer the above questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mis-understood the author&#8217;s intent. He&#8217;s not releasing a tool, so much as testing the waters to see if there is any interest &#8211; that wasn&#8217;t clear from what he said on Scrum Deve. For these purposes I think he did the right thing. I still stand behind the statement I would show a client a released tool where the vendor couldn&#8217;t answer the above questions.</p>
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